Thanks for the title fix Indy!


I plan for this writeup to be for the entire set of coilovers, not just the fronts. So this thread will be updated as soon as I fit my rears on. I know this forum lacks a lot of writeups so I hope this helps out you guys, feel free to refer back here and ask all the questions you might have.


Parts:

-s13 coilovers
-s13 spindle/hub with bolts/nuts for coilovers (2 each side, 4 total)
-s13/q45/z32 rotors and calipers

Tools:

-jack
-jack stands
-rachets/wrenches whatever you prefer
-19mm, 17mm, 14mm, 12mm the good ole sizes on most japanese vehicles
-7/8ths socket, I used this for the nut on the ball joint
-needle nose pliers
-breaker bar (I used the long handle from my jack)
-chain? (you'll see)
-ball joint press


You might be wondering about the s13 LCA's and A-1 tie rod ends, I actually didn't use any of that and used the stock s12 LCA and by using that the stock tie rods seemed to fit. I don't know how well it works at the moment as my car is still going through it's buildup and doesn't run. But over time I will see how it runs and might just update this thread with s13 LCA's and A-1 tierod ends. I also did not finish the brakes, I'm trying to get my hands on loaded/rebuilt q45 calipers from an auto store so there are no front brakes on my car atm. I'm planning on getting new ball joints, painting the spindles, and painting my wheel well,(painting a ton of stuff), so please bear with how horrible they all look

So, you stop by your local convenience store and pick up your set of s13 spindles/hubs


First, you'll need to take your strut/shock/spindle/hub combination special off, and it's fairly easy. The first thing you'll need to do is to remove your calipers, simply remove the two bolts that hold the entire caliper to the spindle, NOT the two bolts that separate the caliper. The two bolts you want to remove are right next to the strut.(as shown in the diagram by the black arrows) As soon as you get it off, rest it on the lower control arm, you don't want to dangle the heavy caliper on the janky old hose.



Then you remove the 3 nuts on the top of the strut tower, then take out the two bolts on the very bottom of the spindle that hold it to the LCA.(as shown by the red lines in the diagram) You'll now have to shake/wiggle/kick the crap out of your strut to get it loose from the mount on the LCA. As soon as it's loose, step on your LCA to lower it, grab the entire strut, raise it up and pull it out. IT'S UNEXPECTEDLY HEAVY! As you might be able to tell now.



Here's what you should have now.

The entire strut/spring/hub/spindle thing


And what's left on your LCA


Now that lower spindle mount is connected to the tie rod and the LCA. First thing's first, take some needle nose pliers and take out the holding pins in both of the nuts.

Such as this


Time to use the breaker bar, I used the bar from my jack. The tierod nut should be a 17mm or a 19mm. I'm unsure what real size the nut on the LCA is but my 7/8th's socket fit perfectly. If your tie rod end moves around too much, get a jackstand to hold it in place.







To pop the spindle mount from the ball joints, you're going to need a ball joint press. I tried hammering away at these for hours but I gave up and went to autozone and found out that they have a FREE specialty tool rental service. So I rented these two balljoint presses hoping that the big one will work on the LCA, IT DOES NOT! The little one however worked great on the tie rod ball joint.



I also rented this universal press hoping that it will work wonders on my LCA ball joint, STAY FAR, FAR AWAY FROM THIS THING, it will frustrate the crap out of you. I tried, and I tried, but it's too much of a pain and because of the odd angle the spindle mount is at, the press (after hours and hours of trying to get it to mount) will NOT pop the joint. Here's what the monstrosity looks like.



What I did in the end was, I took a large chain and wrapped one end around the mount and pulled it through the strut tower. I pulled it up enough so that the LCA lifts up and all the pressure is on the mount, and then struck the ball joint bolt with a hammer several times and it came loose.



And here's what it should look like without the mount



Put the spindle on the ball joint, tighten, and it should look like this.



Connect the tie rod to the spindle, bolt in the coilovers to the strut tower and spindle, and you should have this







At the moment, my car doesn't have brakes so I will update this how to as soon as I get them. Here's how it currently looks without fenders, I'll get better pictures soon





They currently sit with quite a bit of negative camber, I'll check how they sit with the camber plates all the way positive tomorrow. (they're currently set at all the way negative) Everyone is welcome to correct the setup I currently have, I've read in the conversion thread that this or that is needed and while I was planning on doing all of that, the stock tierod and lca just seem to fit without problem.

-update, I set the camber plates to all the way positive and it looks great. s12 LCA seems to work just fine as far as camber goes


The write up will be updated with brakes and rear coilovers asap.

Neat, but i have one question and im going to sound like a complete idiot though....I see that the hubs are four lug....My 88 200sx se v6(now a vg30et) is a five lug. So the hub off of a s13 240SX is four lug?

yeah, youre going to need s14 SE 5 lug, the base models are still 4 lug

how secure is the outer tie rod on the spindle?

I didn't tighten it all the way but it looks like it'd be secure. I've read that the nut will NOT thread far enough to secure it with the pin, a few other's have run stock tie rods without that pin in but for safety reasons I might be getting a pair of a-1 tierods soon.

loctite!

but yeah, i can see where that would be an issue.

Shouldn't you use the S13 ball joints? I'm personally going to use S13 arms with the spindle, but wouldn't the S12 ball joint be different? I just wanted to point this out for safety reasons.

It actually quite looks the same, and the surface area for the spindles that touch the ball joint are the same. However, I'm buying new ball joints for my control arms and I'm going to look into s13 ones anyway so no worries.

I posted this in the other thread but I'll post it again.

If you want 5-lugs with S13 coilovers, you have a few options:

S13 setup
-s13 control arm
-s13 spindle
-s13 5-lug conversion hub(I'm personally going to do this)

S14
-S14 control arm
-S14 SE spindle/hub(SE S14s are 5lug)
-S14 spindle spacer or drill out S13 coilovers to use accomodate larger spindle bolts

S13/14 hybrid
-S13 control arm
-S14 balljoint
-S14 SE spindle/hubs
-S14 spindle spacers or drilled s13 coils.

If you use S14 fronts, might as well use S14 coilovers if you can source it. If not, use S13 coilovers and mix and match S13/14 stuff for 5 lugs. Hope this helps.

Edit, you need other stuff for the coilover conversion, such as
-S14 tension rod brackets ONLY (*not S13*)
-S13 tension rods(stock/aftermarket)
-A1 racing tie rod ends or S13/s14 tie rod inner/outers combo, respectively.

for the brakes you need
S14 5lug rotors
S13/s14 calipers

OR correctly matched Z32 calipers or rotors
OR Q45/j30 calipers and rotors
I forgot the years for the Q45/J30 but I'll clarify later when I convert. I'm still in Seattle so I won't be in Socal for a while.

Anyone know if s13 tension rods will fit on the s12 brackets and LCA?

yah they will fit the s12 LCA no prob but the 12 TC rod bracket isnt same style as the s13/14/z32.

i did the s14 tc rod bracket and s13 tc rods and s13 LCA using my stock s12 strut and hub it all works im sitting on some s14 lca's im gonna punch some new bushings and ball joints in when i find my coilovers.

I forgot to clarify the brake setups. If you use the Z32 4pots, you will need a Z32 master cylinder and Z32 front brake conversion lines for an S13. The z32 piston diameter is 1 1/16". The S12 master cylinder size should be 15/16", stamped on it, then the Q45/j30 brakes will work fine. As for brake lines, stock S13 lines will bolt up to q45/j30 calipers. I haven't tested the S12 brake lines yet so I don't know. You can get Z31 SS lines and they'll bolt right up to the rears(make sure it is 6 pieces, 2 front 4 rear). The fronts I don't know yet but I hope my Z31 lines will bolt up to my Q45 calipers. For the stock V6ers, they can probably run Z31 SS lines all around(since the front/rear calipers are supposedly the same).

UPDATE. My Z31 front lines bolt up to my Q45 calipers, so that means it'll work for the S12/S13/S14/q45/j30 calipers with no problem. I'll post a giant mega info thread once I gather more info.

Z31 EBAY SS lines are all you need whether you are stock or S13 front conversion. Z32 brakes still need the S13 conversion lines, because the Z32 caliper themselves are sealed by an inverted flair, and not banjo(the banjo will bolt up, BUT it's not safe, hence DO NOT DO IT).

{moderator edit: the Z31 Ebay lines suffered failure after approx. 6 months. recommend good quality SS ones or new stock type lines, Sterling 1/7/09}

How would one approach doing S13 on the rear, but retaining the S12 subframe? There is only one way to do it, and thats with lots of welding, cutting of perches, and gnashing of teeth.

Ideas?

ahhh thanks so much for this, i am deff looking into this, and you make it alot easier to understand,

how much should i offer the junkyard for s13/spindles/hubs?
and should i take anything else from the S13?

Brake master and larger booster.

Though if retaining rear drums, keep the BM44 as it has a check valve in-built to keep pressure in the rear line a little.

Can this be done with stock 240 struts instead of full coilovers?

yes

You can use stock s13 struts, but you can't use S13 springs as they are much wider and do NOT fit inside the S12 strut tower.

Do you know what kind of springs can be put on a 240 strut so that it will fit?

Coilover springs. You can use ground control sleeves or any other brand. You might need to use a longer shock insert as S13 struts are very short in an S12 chassis. The struts at full extension is a slammed ride height for the S12. Just something to think about.

If I do 240 struts can I use the stock 240 brakes for the time being?

Okay, 1st I'm new here and would like to say wasup to everybody! I was at the local JY today and was about to snag a set of s13 knucles and hubs for my newly aquired s12 but I found this thread and realized why I could not get them off the car. Let me say to asparagus for reminding me that I am not a weakling! I just did'nt have the right tool! So let me get this straight. (one more time for the new guy) I will need S14 tension rod brackets ,S13 tension rods, and S13/s14 inner/outer tie rod ends to complete the S13 front conversion?

^ you are correct! those parts and you'll be good.



Yes you can, upgrading to Z32 or Q45 can be done later then at any time.

-------------------

Did some cleanup with this thread, the REAR info is available and sorted, and will be added soon. If you check Henry's build thread the last couple pages of the 55 or so has his pics of the rear parts going in, and mod_mastaz has all the part #s, links, and source info.

Thanks 200sxkitcar for clearing that up for me.

i got my spindles hubs and calipers for $42 at pull a part. i bought rotors and pads from autozone the cheapest stuff came out to just shy of $100. i ordered new springtech shocks for $86 shipped. then new ball joints for $68. i need to go back to pull a part for the brake lines.

incase anyone was wanting a general estimate of how much the build costs. i'll have put about $350 into it by the time i'm done.


note: don't go to the dealership for the whole knuckle assembly... i went there to get a price quote and for everything it would've been $1500...

can i use,


s13 spindles,lCA's,tension rods, sway bar, and tie rods



would that all bolt into my s12..

i know you can use the spindles. i'm not sure about the rest of it. i'm gonna get a sway bar from my buddy and see if it fits. (can't argue with free)

i got the sway bar did a side by side comparison and they are the same thickness in diameter and have the same mounting points to the chassis.
only differences is the style of the sway bar links and how it mounts to the swaybar itself. s12 has a horizontal hole and s13 has a vertical hole for a mounting point. it would be possible to use an s13 swaybar as long as you use s13 links.

s12


s13

s13 tensionrods wil not fit on the s12 brackets

and if you use the s14 tensionrodbrackets with s13 tensionrods they dont fit on the s12 lca the bolt patern is different and the s12 tensionrods have smaller bolts
and it's rubbing the swaybar endlinks so dont think that is an option

i am going to trie the s13 lca's tomorrow

So then s13 lower control arms are absolutely necessary to make this work? I was under the impression that the s12 LCAs could be drilled out to accept the s14 TR brackets.

i'd have to disagree. i'm currently running s13 springs




h&r lowering springs.

i have put the s12 lca's and s14 tr brackets and adjustable s13 trods on yesterday and redrilled the s12 lca's and it seems to be a good fit did not drove on them though

for the tiem being can i just weld the castle nut to the tie rod... and just cut it off when i get good tie rods

and my knuckle is stuck to the rod... wont come out

ok so the information on this conversion is scattered at best.

so many say you can do the bare minimum as asparagus did, while others say you need the s13 lca, tension rod, and s14 tension rod bracket.

so basically you cannot use just the s13 knuckle/spindle, coilover/ brake upgrade of your choice, and an aftermarket tie rod endlink?

im pretty sure my stock shocks are blown; and i wasnt planning on replacing everything right now; but i have most of the stock s13 stuff (just the coils i would need)

thanks

This thread totally rocks. Have you done the back yet? I would love to see some pix before i mangle my way through there. I just picked up some Office coils that i'm going to get refurbed then slap um on and slam my s12!!!

you dont need a chain if you have one of these,i got my suspension out in 10min.
not to be bragin im just saying its quicker.

so what is "one of these" called?

I call it a ball joint remover,cheap princess auto tool.

Can you just use the s13 rear coilovers? Or is there a lot of modification that is needed for them to fit?