Full Version: Post Your Na'd Ka24de Build
As some of you are probably aware, I've been reading up and asking questions about member's preferences for CA/SR/KA builds. I seem to be leaning more and more towards the KA, for cost purposes but I would like see who out there has a NA'd KA build and their thoughts on the process before I make a decision.
Honestly an NA build on any of those motors really isnt worth it. IF you still want an NA build for cheap though and dont want a turbo, the KA is the way to go (FOR COST...no flames please, lol)
If your rebuilding and you want ONLY NA (remember building for an NA means you'll probably blow a motor later with boost) the KA24E pistons work in the KA24DE and bring compression to 11.1.
After that, some cams, head work, headers, air intake and you have a decent setup. Dont expect much though, you may have very good response, but even mild tuned SR's will stomp you.
If you wanted to be awesome, theres a way to jimmy-rig GSXR throttle bodies to a cut KA24DE intake manifold for an ITB setup. Doesnt do much for power, but response is gained. However to do this you do need a stand alone ECU as you'll be bypassing the MAF sensor.
A race built NA KA24DE was built but only produced like 210 HP (correct my numbers if wrong)
theres a video of it on youtube somewhere...just type in KA24DE ITB
If your rebuilding and you want ONLY NA (remember building for an NA means you'll probably blow a motor later with boost) the KA24E pistons work in the KA24DE and bring compression to 11.1.
After that, some cams, head work, headers, air intake and you have a decent setup. Dont expect much though, you may have very good response, but even mild tuned SR's will stomp you.
If you wanted to be awesome, theres a way to jimmy-rig GSXR throttle bodies to a cut KA24DE intake manifold for an ITB setup. Doesnt do much for power, but response is gained. However to do this you do need a stand alone ECU as you'll be bypassing the MAF sensor.
A race built NA KA24DE was built but only produced like 210 HP (correct my numbers if wrong)
theres a video of it on youtube somewhere...just type in KA24DE ITB
please explain ITB
ive seen that on corollas and shit how does that work?? i know nothing aboutn it
ive seen that on corollas and shit how does that work?? i know nothing aboutn it
Wilkie, all your answers are HERE http://www.club-s12.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=22285
that was a thread I started for NA stuffs.
Its alot of money for not a whole lot of gain, if you are comfortable with 180hp, maybe 160 to the ground, KA NA is ok, but above that, you're spending big $$ for not a whole lot of power.
David, ITB= individual throttle body. Imagine each cylinder has its own throttle body, with a short tube connecting the TB to the head. High RPM flow, a sick sound, instant throttle response, and increased HP. You have to run some sort of aftermarket ECU tho, because there isn't a good way to hook a MAF to this assembly, but you could build a plenum to connect all of them and do it that way, but IMO that kinda defeats the point. watch some vids, and its easier to understand.
that was a thread I started for NA stuffs.
Its alot of money for not a whole lot of gain, if you are comfortable with 180hp, maybe 160 to the ground, KA NA is ok, but above that, you're spending big $$ for not a whole lot of power.
David, ITB= individual throttle body. Imagine each cylinder has its own throttle body, with a short tube connecting the TB to the head. High RPM flow, a sick sound, instant throttle response, and increased HP. You have to run some sort of aftermarket ECU tho, because there isn't a good way to hook a MAF to this assembly, but you could build a plenum to connect all of them and do it that way, but IMO that kinda defeats the point. watch some vids, and its easier to understand.
Basically instead of one throttle body that lets air in then seperates into the 4-6-8 or however many cylinders. There is 1 smaller throttle body for each cylinder. Benefits are more air into the cylinders, and with more fuel, theres more power. Normally your lower end of the RPM's are gonna be crap, but your higher RPM are going to sing...literally. ITB has a very distinct sound and allows you to raise your RPM limiter which on an NA engine is where all your power lies anyway. Although mostly you wont see huge power gains as you will with turbos and superchargers, you'll get GREAT response from your engine, which in my head is better then power.
AHHH! I hate being at work...he beat me to it...
But isnt there point of MAF sensors need a Stand Alone and MAP sensors dont (but could still benefit?)
AHHH! I hate being at work...he beat me to it...
But isnt there point of MAF sensors need a Stand Alone and MAP sensors dont (but could still benefit?)
Wilkie, here's my thoughts... the nice thing about going with a KA24DE is the engine is 9.5:1 compression. With just an intake and a 2.5" exhaust you will be hauling ass. So you'll enjoy a lot more power without a lot of expense, which makes your car more fun until you can afford the turbo hardware and labor to set it up.
It's the best choice.
It's the best choice.
He would know, I havent driven a KA S12 before...but even in 240's they can be...peppy, lol
before this thread turns into every other KA thread why doesnt someone actually post up
post up? sorry, I just lost a lot of blood and I'm very croggy and I have no idea what that means...
"Post Your Na'd Ka24de Build"
is the name of the thread. i wanna see some damn builds!
is the name of the thread. i wanna see some damn builds!
OH...sorry, well this isnt mine, but enjoy
Race NA KA24
Race NA KA24
because none of us have "race" prepped KA's, David 
We barely have a handful of us with KA swaps. And I think only two turbo'd.
Basically putting in a KA24DE w/ 2.5" exhaust and a nice intake pipe and you'll be busting the ass end loose on all the corners, I promise. And I can spin the wheels off the line TOO easilly.
The S12 is so much lighter than the 240SX... it makes a big difference just with a stock KA24DE and some good exhaust.
We barely have a handful of us with KA swaps. And I think only two turbo'd. Basically putting in a KA24DE w/ 2.5" exhaust and a nice intake pipe and you'll be busting the ass end loose on all the corners, I promise. And I can spin the wheels off the line TOO easilly.
The S12 is so much lighter than the 240SX... it makes a big difference just with a stock KA24DE and some good exhaust.
I was thinking something along the same lines. Put a good intake/throttlebody & exhaust on & then save up for a turbo. The only thing is, I love how responsive an NA is & I didn't know how cheap a good 200hp NA could be done.
Like Arro said, it wont take much in our cars to get them moving. We have less weight to push then 240's and there are a few NA KA 240's that can get up and move. As far as 200 hp? Might be a little optomistic but you know, aim high shoot high.
Cheap, you can get a air intake, headers, custom made exhaust, Q45 throttle body, z32 MAF sensor...get some good spark plugs and wires...do a custom grounding kit (its on NICOclub.com somewhere...real easy) and you can net some decent gains for the money depending on the deals you get
But dont think that setup will carry you into 200 on a S13 KA24DE
EDIT - If you want response though, look at less weight in rotational mass...Flywheel, Driveshaft, Wheels...
Cheap, you can get a air intake, headers, custom made exhaust, Q45 throttle body, z32 MAF sensor...get some good spark plugs and wires...do a custom grounding kit (its on NICOclub.com somewhere...real easy) and you can net some decent gains for the money depending on the deals you get
But dont think that setup will carry you into 200 on a S13 KA24DE
EDIT - If you want response though, look at less weight in rotational mass...Flywheel, Driveshaft, Wheels...
Some comments on the web....
"Putting a gigantic throttle body on a 4 banger is going to cost you drivability. Its not worth it at all IMO. You might see 5 hp or something at top end, but its not much of a gain."
and
"No need to swap the TB out. The KA has made 450whp in numerous different cars with the stock intake and TB. Swapping a big TB onto the stock intake isn't going to improve flow any IMO. Now if you were to upgrade the intake mani...then I'd swap it out.
In short, unless you're power goals are huge then just keep the stock TB and intake."
and
"The Q45 throttle body modification, as you say, is a popular one for people who supercharge their 350Zs and G35s. Otherwise, dont bother."
and so on and so forth.
Stock KA TB is 60mm. That's pretty damn big. Q45 is 90mm. That's TOO big.
And yes, it's not always a case of "bigger is better" with everything.
"Putting a gigantic throttle body on a 4 banger is going to cost you drivability. Its not worth it at all IMO. You might see 5 hp or something at top end, but its not much of a gain."
and
"No need to swap the TB out. The KA has made 450whp in numerous different cars with the stock intake and TB. Swapping a big TB onto the stock intake isn't going to improve flow any IMO. Now if you were to upgrade the intake mani...then I'd swap it out.
In short, unless you're power goals are huge then just keep the stock TB and intake."
and
"The Q45 throttle body modification, as you say, is a popular one for people who supercharge their 350Zs and G35s. Otherwise, dont bother."
and so on and so forth.
Stock KA TB is 60mm. That's pretty damn big. Q45 is 90mm. That's TOO big.
And yes, it's not always a case of "bigger is better" with everything.
For the hell of it, I'd throw on the ghetto ITB's, lol...I know you need to run stand alone but I mean...I've priced out the GSXR throttles and a seperate intake mani and at one point (last time I check has been a while) it was like 50 bucks to my door.
I'd do it just to see it run, just to see what gains it has, the fun of fabbing it up, and the fun of soldering my mega squirt together...and the mega squirt can then be used for a turbo later
I'd do it just to see it run, just to see what gains it has, the fun of fabbing it up, and the fun of soldering my mega squirt together...and the mega squirt can then be used for a turbo later
Dude you need to read that link to the itb setup... you can't just 'throw it on' as you said, you need a stand-alone engine management solution, such as Megasquirt. itb's won't work with KA factory electronics. Stand-alone + tuning to get it to run right = lots of time and $$$$.
OH yea I know, I got a buddy who works at a dyno place...thats not a problem, I got the mega squirt in the post too..half the fun is soldering the damn thing, lol
I make it seem a lot easier then it really is...but if I were to do it, I'd go that way...Would no longer be a road car at all but again, I'd do it just for the sake of seeing the gains it has - if any - and see what the response is like...from the people who have done it, they all say it was worth it even if it is only 200 hp.
I make it seem a lot easier then it really is...but if I were to do it, I'd go that way...Would no longer be a road car at all but again, I'd do it just for the sake of seeing the gains it has - if any - and see what the response is like...from the people who have done it, they all say it was worth it even if it is only 200 hp.
I'm sure it is, throttle response would be amazing. But for most people, they can't just throw it in with a stand-alone like that. Most people don't have access to a tuning shop and free work, and MS still costs a decent sum of money. I just wanted to be clear about that.
For sure tho that engine prolly would scream down the road. I've heard a 2G Neon w/ ITB's and it sounded like it should have been going around in an oval track
For sure tho that engine prolly would scream down the road. I've heard a 2G Neon w/ ITB's and it sounded like it should have been going around in an oval track
You wouldnt believe how many times I went and almost bought the throttles, and another intake mani when I had my 240sx...Its a lot of work people..lets be clear bout that..and if you love power, its probably not for you. BUT I've always been a fan of high revving, loud screaming, ITB sucking, NA machines...couldnt tell you why but I like them more then boosting, even if they do technically take more of a beating then boosting...
Even to this day I keep coming back to it thinking to do it. I have SOHC pistons sitting at home...I can do a rebuild for faily cheap with the hook ups I have...do a port and polish, proper built head, run the mega squirt and see what happens...then when I want to supercharge it - I just need to change the bottom end a bit (pistons - rings - rods)...head is still good, (need a new intake mani) but headers are still good too, full exhaust would still be fine, EVERYTHING is fine for the supercharger..and it would be on a standalone...
Should I?? hehe
Little extra money on my part, but to hear the differences in the 2 areas of KA that arent widely explored from one person might help
Even to this day I keep coming back to it thinking to do it. I have SOHC pistons sitting at home...I can do a rebuild for faily cheap with the hook ups I have...do a port and polish, proper built head, run the mega squirt and see what happens...then when I want to supercharge it - I just need to change the bottom end a bit (pistons - rings - rods)...head is still good, (need a new intake mani) but headers are still good too, full exhaust would still be fine, EVERYTHING is fine for the supercharger..and it would be on a standalone...
Should I?? hehe
Little extra money on my part, but to hear the differences in the 2 areas of KA that arent widely explored from one person might help
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